The RNT2 John Mendoza Copper Combo Cups and Balls

First off, I might be writing this review prematurely, you see I have not mastered the Mendoza Combo Cups as of yet. I have used them enough to become very familiar with their handling and unique properties.  Let me explain how I ended up with a set…

My Back Story:
Last year when I decided to get back into magic, I started researching what I had missed in magic over the years. It was then that I came across the website “The Magic Café. From it I became fascinated with the Cups and Balls and learned of Jake and RNT2. I read as everyone waxed on about how spun Cups were the way to go, that they were the best Cups ever. I admit that it got me thinking that my then, current set of Cups, a set of Johnson Products, were inferior being made by the CNC process (since then I know better). I was convinced that I had to have a set of spun Cups… This is when I first caught Cup Fever.

It was shortly after this, that I read a post that said Jake was shutting down RNT2 and that we better act fast if we wanted a set of their Cups. I briefly went into a state of being just short of a panic. I thought to myself, if RNT2 goes away, I might never own a set of quality spun Cups.

If you remember a year ago, the price of copper went through the roof and so did the price of copper Cups. I only had funds enough for one set of really good Cups. I listed the pros and cons of each of RNT2’s offerings. My wish list became the JES Squatty 2 Cups, the Sisti Polished Copper Cups and the John Mendoza Copper Combo Cups. I finally made my decision, if I was going to own only one set of RNT2 Cups, it was going to be… the Mendoza Combo Cups.

I purchased the Mendoza Combo Cups because I wanted the best of all worlds…a good looking set of Cups and a Chop Cup. I reasoned with a combo set, I always have the option to use them as regular Cups, by simply switching out one of the balls. I felt that I covered all my bases and made the right choice at the time. 

Since then, RNT2 has not gone away, my Cup Fever continues and Jake has sold me a lot of Cups. I have learned that it is probably best to learn a straight Cups and Balls routine first and then ease into a Combo Cup routine. I will finish learning the Vernon routine and then move on to the Combo Cups.

The Cup’s Back Story:
I don’t know the all the facts behind the Mendoza Combo Cups, but will share with you what I have found on the internet.

Some time in the 70’s, John Mendoza was the first to popularize a Cups and Balls routine using a set of Combo Cups. Throughout the years, John became very dissatisfied with the Combo Cups available. He thought most Cups were poorly made having exposed gaffs and too little final load capabilities.  His quest for the perfect set of Combo Cups lead him to believe that they just did not exist, that they would have to be designed and made from scratch.

RNT2 was chosen to take on the task to design John’s perfect Cups. Many prototypes and years passed until RNT2 settled upon a final design.  RNT2 found by designing the Cups and gaff to be capable of accepting a tennis ball and as separate interlocking units, that their Cups would truly have an invisible gaff and a very large final load capacity. They also went as far as designing the non-gaffed Cups to be identical in weight, balance and appearance to the gaffed Cup.

Unlike other Combo Cups on the market; RNT2’s Cups were conceived from day one, to be a Combo set. It seems that most Combo Cups offered by other manufactures are an after thought, it is very typical of other makers to take existing Cups and modify them (sometimes very poorly) to become Combo sets.

This all worked well for RNT2 earning them John Mendoza’s endorsement. (Below is from RNT2’s website)

"I have spent the last four years looking for the perfect set of Combo cups for my Mendoza Cups & Balls routine.  I have tried virtually every cup maker you can imagine, from the low end cheap cups to the very highest end silver cups and every maker in between, including some very nice attempts from RNT II.  I have had no success.  To my absolute delight, RNTII has now succeeded in making the perfect cups.  Their feel and weight is perfect.  All three cups have the same feel and weight.  The release is as close to perfect as one can get and the size holds a big load without looking like a big cup.  I honestly cannot recommend any cup more highly for the Mendoza Cups & Balls Routine."  John Mendoza

The Review:
I am just going to start the review with the comments I would usually save for the end…the RNT2 John Mendoza Copper Combo Cups are the best Combo Cups I have ever seen or used. They are beautiful to look at, a joy to touch and their chopped feature is the best period.

The Cups as purchased came with all the standard fare, 3 Cups (1 is gaffed and 2 regular), 4 each 1” balls (1 gaffed and 3 regular) and a bag made of a leather like material (PIC 1). The Cups are of polished copper and their size is on the large size, compared to other Cups that I have. They are also a hefty Cup. I can see a Paul Fox influence to their shape with a slight modernization. To me, they look best shiny; I try to keep my set polished (PIC 2 and PIC 3).

As discussed above the gaff is very well hidden within the Cup, one has to really dig their nose into the Cup to find its secret. Pic 4 and 5 shows the inside of the gaffed Cup and how it looks compared to its straight brother. They are undistinguishable from each other. The same can be said for the Cups standing side by side (PIC 6).  The gaffed Cup works perfectly as a Chop Cup and can stand on its own. For those that do not know, RNT2’s gaffed balls are very unique as they are adjustable. You can fine tune the ball to the Cup and your touch. 

As I mentioned the Cups are on the large size, each Cup stands approximately 3 ½” high and its mouth is 3” wide. They are a heavy Cup weighing in at 7.8 oz. each (PIC 7 and PIC . For size comparison I have included pictures of other Combo Cups (PIC 9).

The Cup was designed to be feed a large load for the grand finally. They can take a tennis ball with no problem. PIC 10 shows the Mendoza Cup completely covering a tennis ball and the result of other Cups trying to do the same. Because of it Paul Fox Like characteristics the tennis ball appears to be too large for the Cup. It also goes without saying that the Cups can also easily handle a lacrosse ball for a final load (PIC 11).

I have already used up my closing remarks in the beginning of the review. All that I need to add is this… if you are ever considering purchasing a set of Combo Cups, these are the Cups. The RNT2 John Mendoza Copper Combo Cups are the finest Combo Cups available.


PIC 1 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1069-1.jpg

PIC 2 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1070.jpg

PIC 3 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1075.jpg

PIC 4 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1071.jpg

PIC 5 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1072.jpg

PIC 6 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1073.jpg

PIC 7 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1078.jpg

PIC 8 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1079.jpg

PIC 9 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1080.jpg

PIC 10 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1076.jpg

PIC 11 http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/BCSDenver/Cups/IMG_1074.jpg

Isn't it interesting how we catch "cup fever" whenever we get our first set of good cups? My first (and only at the moment, but I soon will take advantage of the RnT2 going out sale,) set of cups was a set of Magic Maker's Brass Street Cups, which I consider a good set; they are not great, but they are good. I just saw that in the beginning of your post how the Johnson Cups got you started. Anyway, great review, as always.

Ketchup,

How have you been?
It is like everything else that is a hobby, once you are turned on to better gear, be it golf clubs, electronics, etc. you learn that there is a difference (and in most cases for the better). Besides appreciating a good Cup, I also look at them as little works of art… oh how I like their shapes.

Take care,
Bruce

I've been good, a little overwhelmed by all that I want to get at RnT2, but good thanks. You?

I definitely see what you're saying. I would buy sets just to display; I take pride in them, they each have a unique story of their own. Bruce, do you have any pictures with all of your cups in it? Oh, call me Mike by the way. My last name is Heins, so I made the gay name "ketchup."

Hey there Mike, nice to know you. I am also trying to figure out my last purchases from RNT2, hoping what I want will still be there… Pay day is Friday. There are pictures of my Cups in the “Look at these Cups” section. I will post updated pictures when some new family members arrive (I have been patiently waiting). Like you, I like to display them and also make little presentation boxes for them. One day I plan to have a magic/2 CH audio room (it will be just my room and my wife can’t say a thing about what I hang on the walls or put on the shelves… and for the record, I love her dearly).

Take care,
Bruce

Bruce, what cups are you looking at getting?

Mike,
I am looking to purchase the Don Alan Polished Copper and Aluminum Chop Cups. I have a Baby and a Stubby Don already and thought that they would round out my collection, I like big Chop Cups. I also want to get some new sets of balls (it always sound funny when you write about balls), but I am having problems deciding what colors to get them in. What do you think? Oh… and I want to get some of those brass wand ends.

I just hope that what I want is available come pay day… I am amazed at the close-out prices and saddened by the circumstances that has caused them. I wish Jake and his family the best!

Take care,
Bruce

I can't wait to received my Mendoza cup as well

Wow Bruce, you seem get a "wanna complete my set" syndrome lol......

btw I'm getting red/gold color ball. I think all color which RnT made are superb... it's hard to decide sometimes really... in the end you will buy 2 sets of balls.....

I just wonder if there's still few items left after January 09... I wanna get it :p

Cheers
Andre

Bruce,

   Sounds good. I hope you get to finish or round of your Don Alan collection. A lot of work, dedication, passion, and sacrifice go into good cup collections. You definitely seem to be very avid in all of those qualities. As for the ball color, I can't really say. What cups do you plan on using them with? What metal are the cups made out of? Do you plan on keeping the cups shiny or forming a patina. I have theories on what color balls to use with different metals in cups, which sounds terribly "geeky" I know

Nice talking to you, I always look forward to what you have to say.



        Mike


Oh, by the way. How is the gaff on the Don Alan chop cups? Is it obvious like most chop cup, or more hidden like the Mendoza. I saw a picture of the Silver Don Alan with the gold plated interior, and the gimmicked looked kind of "out in the open," but I highly doubt that any laymen would know what they're looking at. They are still VERY nice chop cups. Also, what size load can the full- sized ones hold?
all say that they can hold a baseball, but I know some people who say that you could probably get a softball in there? How true is that? Thanks man!

Hey Guys…

Andre,
Hang in there your Cups will show up when you least expect them or till you can’t wait any longer. Yes, I have always suffered from wanting to have complete collections in whatever I am into. I also am a pack rat… my wife has cured me of most of that due to several moves. I am going for a set of hunter green and just like you, the red/gold balls. What size balls are you doing? I am going to order the 1” size.

Mike,
I admit that I am geeky, but I am glad there are others who understand me. I hope to order the Cups tomorrow. The gaff is different then the Mendoza Cups because there is no lip or rings. I will try to write something up with pictures very soon. What you saw of the inside of the Cup, is for lack of a better term, a raised hump. It matches the indentation on the bottom of the Cup (or in our world, top of the Cup). If you see one you will know what I mean. I have never tried a baseball in the Stubby Cup that I have, but a good sized orange will fit.

Tom… if you are out there, what fits your full size DA Cup?

Best wishes to all,
Bruce

Bruce,

A baseball will fit in the full size Don Alan cups.
A stubby Don Alan cup will also take a baseball as long as you use a close-up mat. In the stubby, a baseball protrudes about 1/16" from the bottom of the cup and can cause rocking if you use a hard surface.

Tom

Bruce,

Yea, can't wait to play with it. Perhaps I should order another set... I also want PF style cup.
I'm doin 1 1/8" balls. The bigger the ball I guess will give extra sight. I used to use bazar de magia balls which come with the cup. I think it's 7/8 and way too light.
I'm curious about the balls that Frank Starsini make... I think they are great as well.
Hmm green is good. What about mini baseball They look awesome as well

Cheers
Andre

Hi Andre,
If you like 1 1/8 inch balls, look at the Sherwood Deluxe balls. They have a terrific weight to them - best balls I've ever used. Brett Sherwood invented the concept of using metallic thread in the knitted ball and, much to his chagrin, anyone else making them have copied his idea.  He makes them in some very good colors that compliment the cups.
http://www.sherwoodmagic.com
I have 2 sets in White and Silver and a Red and Gold set on order. The gaffed balls for chop cups are lighter, specially designed for chop cups and adjustable. You will be impressed by these balls.
And I don't really care for the mini baseballs for cups and balls. I have an original Mike Rogers set of 4 that I should sell - I never use them.

I'm getting a set of RnT2 balls soon (probably, I have to wait for Epiphany Jean to get back to me,) how are the gaffed balls adjustable? How do you adjust the ball? Thanks.

There is a small rod inserted in one end of the ball. If you use a pin or similar object, you can push the rod in deeper, thus reducing the strength of the attraction. I don't like to have to POUND the cup down to dislodge the ball. The weight of the cup makes a difference too - heavier cups can be just dropped an inch or two out of the hand to the table and that will do the trick - if the gaff ball is adjusted. It's been a while since I did this, it's not something you need to tinker with once you get the attraction strength you like.
With RNT2 balls you can usually see the end of the rod, so you know where to push. If you push too far, you have to push it back out from the other side. Again, it's not something you need to tinker with a lot once you find a nice feel.