Hi,

When I begin to compare some cups, I notice some apparently similar-looking cups have unique differences between them. I wonder if we can look at our own cups for similar ones and list out their uniqueness from others.  For example, RNT2 JES against RNT2 PF, Gary's Gazzo against RNT 2 Gazzo, we are looking purely  at physical differences for identification purpose, and not which is better or suitable. Hopefully, this thread can be useful for those buying these cups in future.
(I think Bill has already made comparisons of some cups in  the museum though)
Francis

I will start with this comparison:
I have a few sets of RNT2  mini PF cups of different materials. One that stands out among the rest is a brass set I bought from a friend. It is supposed to be the first set of mini PF that Jake spun. The rest are mainly from current RNT2. Here is the photo of the 2 sets of cups sitting side-by-side. Notice the height, stack height and bead thickness of the brass set is more than that of the chrome. There are 1or 2 more subtle differences mentioned in the description of the photos. The brass set could possibly be a test set, something like a prototype, or could it be those made by Jake differ slightly fom those of Donnie? Maybe Bill or Jake could help.

http://s1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff450/Francisngkl/My%20Collection%20of%20Cups/Cups%20Comparisons/?track=share_email_album_view_click

Francis

It's hard to say who got the first set of these. I actually photographed the first single mini PF that RnT II made. Mike Brazill brought it over to the house and I photographed it next to a PF cup. I think there have been minor variations in skirt length on these.

Hi Bill,

I have only 1 set of mini PF made prior to Donnie's takeover of RNT2, I cannot tell if the differences applies to all sets made by Jake against current ones or the discrepancies only apply to this set of cups alone.

Francis

I haven't really checked that out carefully. I know that there were skirt length variations in Danny Dew's cups. He used to get an order of, say, 150 individual cups and separate them into the best matched sets.

I have an early set of RNT2 Stainless Steel Mini PF Cups and a set of the same that are spun from copper that are from the Donnie era; the shoulder bead height varies slightly between the 2 sets, also the shoulder beads are shaped not as bulbous on the stainless steel Cups when compared to the copper Cups.

I also have RNT2 PF Cups (Jake era) in many finishes, 2 sets of copper, copper that has been chromed, church bronze and stainless steel... each are slightly different one set to another. Their differences are the shapes of shoulder beads and how bulbous or sharp the rise of the Cup is as it goes from shoulder bead to saddle.

It is kind of funny that we Cupsters notice or make mention of these things... the differences are slight and can only be seen with direct comparisons. Of the RNT2 PF Cups that I have, the chrome set is shaped the closest to the set DD PF T2 set that I have.

When showing my Cups to those without the sickness... none ever make mention of the different shapes... most think that they all look the same.

Having each of the sets vary just a little bit is a good thing... Remember these have all been hand spun by an artisan, a run at a time. This really hits home when the spun Cups are compared to CNC created Cups... take a look at the Johnson sets’ they are all the same.

Gary Animal, please don’t take this as a slam or as a complaint of your craftsmanship... your sets really differ from set to set (same style) or even Cup to Cup within a set. To me this is the charm of owning a set of your Cups; it all goes to being tiny sculptures that are hand spun.

Thanks,
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Useful info for me, thanks.

Speaking of RNT 2 chrome cups. I have a few sets of Bells of St Mary, How are they different from the chrome ones (other than those currently from Donnie), and the stainless steel ones?

Francis

Francis... I am not quite sure what you are asking, but I will take a stab at it. I am sure that Bill will correct me and add to the posting.

The first RNT Bells of ST Mary were Monti style Cups spun in steel then chromed.

I have RNT2 Bells of ST Mary that are Jake era that I was told are from his first run of reproducing them, again steel, possibly stainless steel... they ring but not as good as a set of Johnson Cups.

I believe that there were a few brass sets of RNT2 Monti Cups that were chromed and ring like the Johnson Cups.... I am not sure if they were called Bells of ST Mary or not.

The secret to having a set that rings is that the mouth bead must not be turned into the body of the Cup tightly.

Thanks,
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Sorry for the confusion. I will try this, are all the chromed steel Monti cups made by Jake automatically called Bell of St Mary? Or put it in another way, for those made by Jake, are there chromed steel Monti cups that are not Bell of St Mary?

Thanks

Francis

Francis... That’s a good question, I do not know... though I bet Bill does. I know my set is Bells of ST Mary, the embroidered bag says so... LOL. I will say this, I prefer the copper Monti  Cups verses the B of SM set that I have... the steel and stainless steel sets I have just seem too clinical to the touch (I cannot explain it any better than that); I do like the stainless steel PF Mini Cups though... call me weird.

Francis here is my question for you... Do all the sets you have of B of SM sound the same when struck?

Thanks,
Bruce

They don't sound the same... Or am I imagining....

Francis

Francis... thinking about the Cups last night (yes I had nothing better to do... LOL), I would think that when the first RNT steel chromed Monti Cups came out that they were just another Cup option. I can’t remember the name of the magician, but someone gave them the name of B of SM after they were made, I don’t know how many sets Mike had spun and if he had latter sets marketed under the B of SM name.

I believe (and I could be wrong), that RNT2 under Mike and Jake’s rule reissued the Cups in a small run and latter Jake did another run of the Cups while he was the sole owner.

Thanks,
Bruce

What a coincidence, i couldn't get over the uncertainty (i was an accountant by profession), so i wrote to Jake and asked. Jake said he probably made about 24 of the chromed steel which are the B SM. He also mentioned that there were only a few B SM in chromed Brass. I didn't ask about the numbered made in Mike' era though.

As for  the number of plain steel Monti he couldn't recall the number.

Thank you so much Bruce. I now have more info of B SM. Very interesting.

Francis... It is kind of humorous to me; your interest in Cups is much like mine... numbers made, the histories behind them, not just the performance of the Cups. It is the way our minds are wired... you an accountant and me in sales, currently managing a sales force and warehouse.

I don’t believe that RNT2 issued Monti Cups as just a steel option... several sets were offered as stainless steel or gun metal (a blued steel if I understand the process correctly). As to the gun metal Cups, a couple of my Cup buddies have had issues with rust (they live on the coasts or in humid climates). The sets that I have show no rust... it is dry where I live and I have applied wax to the Cups.

Bruce

The late Dr. Earl Reum of Colorado saw a set of the chrome plated steel monti cups at a convention during the 1970's. He tapped one of them and it rang like a bell. He told Mike Brazill "Those ring like the Bells of St. Mary's."

The name stuck.