Kicker endings have been described as a startling or surprise ending to a trick.

Surely that ought to qualify our final loads as such.
Perhaps not congruent ball-type loads but others, such as coins, fruit etc.

To me, the cups and balls is basically a translocation trick.
Balls disappear, reappear and change places.

Congruent ball-type loads can be said to be the small balls growing but fruit, chicks etc...

Personally, I don't see them as "kickers".
I think that, to the audience, the trick is that things appear, disappear and move, all to be found under the cups.
So, finding something else there, although surprising, isn't a "kicker" as such.

Magician thinking?

What do you think?

Tom,

I partially agree on you with your statement. I do agree that some loads aren't kickers, I don't agree with the incongruent loads being not a kicker. Incongruent loads do surprise people anyway you look at it, I believe that a congruent load is explainable. Fruit however has nothing to do with the effect as such.

Looking back on the days that I didn't know anything about the cups and saw it the very first time I was blown away at the ending (a fruit ending). In my eyes an excellent kicker would be the use of the kicker cups.

Maybe we do have the intension to look at a trick as a magician instead of laymen.

Tom and Etienne… to me a kicker ending would be something other than a ball appearing as a final… such as fruit. I would also consider additional revealed loads after the first ones to be kickers. I have done this with a Chop Cup but never with a 3 Cup set.


The first time I saw final loads that were the same as the balls only larger; I felt kind of disappointed. This would be well after I knew the workings… the others that were not in the know, seemed to be amazed by seeing the larger ball final loads.


I have yet to see in person someone show after the loads were revealed that the Cup/Cups had a solid bottom. I am not sure if doing such would really add to the presentation.

Bruce

I think that incongruent loads such as fruit etc are, or can be said to be, kickers.

A melon, a la Gazzo, to me, is also a kicker.

In the end, what does it matter really?
If the audience is surprised, fooled and entertained, we've done our job.

I must confess first that I am only into magic for about 2 years and I am a total amateur. I do magic only for preschool children in my childcare centers and a children hospital. 

When I was rehearsing my cups and balls routine (very much Vernon's), my  10 years old daughter suggested that I load angry bird stuff toys instead of bigger balls. I did and the response was fantastic. I feel if we can load stuff that the audience can relate to, their response would be much better than those loads  we habitually use.

Francis

Francis... True, if it puts a smile on a kid’s face or makes your audience happy... you did your job.

Unless they are sadistic and you made them happy by failing... LOL. There are some mean kids out there.

Bruce

That is a very good observation Francis.
I would never have thought of that.

Thank you.

Not to disagree with your definition of a "kicker," but there should be an explanation of where the term comes from. In all forms of entertainment, a "kicker" is a bit of business that increases the audience's appreciation of the performance, usually producing a more intense response than the bit that came before it.

These occur in comedy, juggling, music, magic ... basically all the performing arts. You see them in movies. Sometimes a kicker can be very intricately woven into the plot line of a "number." (I'm using a term that applies more broadly to art forms than just to magic.)

Shawn Farquhar has one of the most intricately woven series of climaxes I have ever seen to a cups and balls routine. I won't go into the details here except to say that he produces a series of final loads, all (apparently) without doing any loading moves, then reveals that all the cups are solid. But you know that the cups aren't solid, because he did all the conventional cup moves with them...or did he? I've seen this "live" at least three times. He does not switch any of the cups.

The series of final loads are the buildup, the solidity is the kicker.

Here's an example from the movies. Friday 13th, II.  Near the beginning of the movie, there is a little dog that gets lost in the forest around the lake. Later, two of the characters happen upon a badly mutilated small animal corpse. One of them asks what it is. The other replies: "Looks like it might have been a dog."

Just before the end of the movie, two of the characters are trapped in one of the cabins, hiding behind a cot, armed only with a broken hoe handle. There is a noise at the door. Finally, one of them opens the door, and there is ... THE DOG!

There is about a 5 beat pause while the audience relaxes.

Then Jason Vorhees jumps through the screen window. That's the kicker. The dog is the setup.

So, what's the secret here?

It's all in the SELL. If you don't point out that it is strange to find a big ball under a cup, it will be boring. If you make it important, the audience will see it as important.

Questions?

Thank you Bill.

Sorry about mu incomplete definition, that was just me writing as I was thinking.
Not thinking enough though.

Welcome back to CupsCon by the way.

Tom

No need to apologize. I actually had to spend some time thinking about why we call things "kickers," and what makes them "kick."

These are good exercises for me.

There are some interesting musical "kickers." One of these is the false ending.

At a show for the staff of one of the Renaissance festivals, a group of us did a version of an old Stephen Foster song. It was really fast paced. When we played the last chorus, we stopped at a very clean ending, and turned as if to walk offstage. Actually we were doing a mental four count -- one, two, three, four -- then we came back in with another chorus. It turned a round of applause into a standing ovation.

Another type of false ending is a related, but different chord. Let's say you are playing a song in the key of G. The final cadence of the song, that is the last two chords, will usually be a D7 chord, followed by a G.

So, instead of going from a D7 to a G, you go from a D7 to an Eb. The Eb chord has a G in it, so it just sounds like you have taken a detour. This will cause people to squirm a bit until you play a G chord.

If you really want to make them take notice, the Eb chord should have the G on top. Follow that with an F major chord with a suspended 2nd, that is an F chord with a G on top. Then follow that with the G chord.

It's a not-too uncommon barbershop quartet kind of ending.

Thanks Bill,

Very nice analogy. Got me thinking the differences much better.

Francis

Sort of like a blues turnaround with a twist.
 

Hi Guys,

I remember reading something about this somewhere. But these are my 2 points on this topic.

The Final Loads for Cups and Balls are like Coin Flurry to Jumbo Coins or Ambitious Card routines that ends with the Card-to-wallet. Even if the preliminary phases are amazing, it is the "Kicker" or "Climax" that they will remember.

I believe that many also agree that without Final Loads, there is almost no reason to perform the Cups and Balls. That leads to what Vernon said in the Revelations DVD. "You wanna get to the Final Loads as soon as possible"

I personally think that he didn't elaborate on this point. I guess he meant to say that it is important that the flow and timing of the phases will help set up to build or heighten the "Kicker" In that case all the preliminary phases are now important.

They appear, disappear, penetrate, gather, jump from the pocket and all the misdirection and the flow of the routine leads up to the final loads of what ever it may be.

Which leads me to my 2nd point. Final Loads.

I agree with Mr. Francis that if we have Final Loads that people can relate to, the effect will be much better and hence, a better "Kicker" ending.

And I have a few examples of Final Loads that make sense and worth looking at them as "Kickers" and "Climaxes" to a Cups and Balls Routine.

Mr. Michael Ammar came to Singapore for a lecture last month and in his show, he had a lemon and baseball handed out to the audiences right from the start of his show and during his C&B routine, he vanishes them and they magically reappear under the cups. and the "Kicker" ending was that the bill from earlier in the show has now reappeared inside the lemon. (something that ppl can relate to)

Another example of a "Kicker" ending will be David Regal's C&B and C&B routine where I am very sure most of you are familiar with where he starts off with an Adam's magic set of Cups then goes on to a "Professional" set and after the Final Loads appear, he re-appears the set of Adam's Cups. Making it full circle and also something that ppl can relate to.

I hope these 2 routines can not just set us thinking on the importance of "Kicker" and "Climaxes" but to also help us get there!

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers!

Jeremy Tan

 

These are good analogies. Sometimes, though, we can destroy the "kick" with our patter.

For example, if you say, "I know where this one came from, and I know where that one came from, but WHERE did this one come from?" it can ruin the trick.

Why?

First, you show the audience they are stupid for not figuring out where the loads came from.

Second, you ask them a question that you don't want to hear the answer to. One or more of them may KNOW where the third (or fourth) one came from.